JavaScript is disabled. The Levo SL? Seeing if anyone else out there has had problems with their EP8. There are a lot of factors that influence range including rider weight, tyre choice, trail conditions, and elevation. Shimano doesnt state what those design differences are, however. These motors have Cadence sensors as well as torque sensors. There is zero stickiness at the pedals that we could detect. Generally on bikes we spend so little time braking that regeneration would be a waste of effort. Still, that clutch design means it is impressively drag-free beyond the cutoff point. Anyone having problems with the charger? However the motor operation itself is fabulous, smooth, powerful, feels natural when you ride, you can cover ground like crazy in this thing. As expected, the new Shimano EP8 motor gets a hefty boost in power, with a claimed maximum torque output of 85 Nm. SpecializEd # levo SL is a great benchmark Have had a Specialized Levo & sold it due to making weird noises, so yes other manufacturers have problems too, not saying that is easy to get good reliability with new technology, but my Shimano e-8000 motor has been more reliable even is very wet weather! Really? Let us know what you find out. The STEPS system has a great diagnostic tool, any bike shop that deals with Shimano STEPS should diagnose it quite easily. Purchased an SC Bullit in march and I now have 520 miles on it. A little more overrun from the EP8 motor, and even the option to tune that attribute via the E-Tube app, would be stupendous! It doesn't feel good. You are not alone. Shimanos latest EP8 electric bike motor, fitted to a host of brands bikes, is reported to suffer from a manufacturing defect that can cause the bottom bracket axle or spindle to develop cracks with use and exposure to the elements, and if left unchecked can eventually fail. You can't imagine what kind of thought must have gone behind that response? I tried to find out the cause of this. Our drive units are not tested for use with third party crank arms.. Improving performance on undulating terrain, Shimano has also increased the EP8s available torque at lower cadences. Can never hear it over the sound of the wind rushing by or the trail / wheels noises. The EP8 RS engine is physically the same as the . I run the previous version steps e8000 and I think it's brilliant. Personally, were ok with downshifting and spinning our way up a steep incline its better for the health of your knees, and its likely better for the health of the motor too. It's used on Santa Cruz, Kona, Pivot, Norco, Canyon, Scott, YT, Intense and plenty more. Then theres the BT-8035-L battery, which is a 504Wh battery that shares the same physical dimensions as the 630Wh version. It also responds a fraction quicker at the pedals, and delivers more overrun power when ratcheting the pedals over technical features up a climb. IMO we're still in the pilot phase and have a lot of room for improvement. I can only hear any motor rattling when I am doing really gnarly rocky downhill. If you aren't climbing steeps and requiring the torque, you would get way longer distance. Didn't think I'd ever see that. On my older gen Bosch motor with a 500wh battery I can get about 30 miles out of a battery charge if I only turbo up the steepest climbs and do the other bits in low/mid power settings (and I'm about 100kg's / 16 stone which sucks battery). I have not heard of a recall, so I did some digging. They must be under pressure to deliver units as this is at best rushed. You still have the three basic assist modes: Eco, Trail and Boost. Can't see the equivalent of a ribbed chainstay protector happening. A dinamo or recharging when braking or something That's what I'm still waiting for! As to how the de-tuned EP8 motor performs? The belt-driven design is also a touch quieter when pedalling, and theres no clacking noise either. Looks like Rocky(Dyname), Giant(Yamaha) and Specialized(Brose) are in for 2021 and Shimano and Bosch are out. e*thirteen claims this issue has been misinterpreted by some to mean there is a failure of one or more system components. Can I give 100 upvotes please? Basically, the battery level drops from around 30% to 2% extremely quickly. For a mechanic, mechanical noise is a no-no by the end of the ride Id be destroyed mentally! Recalled but still was delivered with the rattle. -- Wild Bill. Overall very pleased with the bike and the motor. - Tuning options are simple and effective And with brands such as Merida and Canyon making use of internal wiring through the handlebars, the whole arrangement is quite tidy. So many issues that can be simply solved by not having a motor. But would the noise stop us from recommending an EP8-equipped bike? Furthermore, the range estimation is more accurate in our experience too. It's a powerful unit with a huge reach, but it has a little problem: it rattles when riding downhill or, simply put, there is no power on the pedals. Their heckler had complete battery failure, the ship date for a new one is close to the motor ship date. The svelte motor casing provides more clearance for the rear wheel and suspension components, allowing brands to build their bikes with shorter chainstays. Thanks! Just imagine if i had bought a Shitmano Ebike. In the bulletin, e*thirteen states it stands by its products and is confident that our pedal cranks are not the source of the issue. only one port which needs to be connected directly to the motor. Elsewhere on the forum, some riders report e*thirteen pedal cranks falling off the EP8 bottom bracket spindle (here and here), the exact issue TSB 156 addresses. Seems quite useful for when pushing the bike up these impossible climbs. According to the TSB, only Shimanos EP8 motor is affected. Wed much rather see battery life displayed as a percentage, and the option to customise the screen. I suppose pedal assist allows you to tackle the more fun/steep/tech climbs but to be effective it needs to be subtle too. 2b - If threadlock patch is present, move on to step 3. There is zero stickiness at the pedals that we could detect. If possible, repeat this ride on the Eco and Boost modes too. Power delivery is immediately intuitive thanks to the new MasterMind firmware that Specialized developed specifically for the 2.2 motor, which reduces power spikes from rapid changes in crank speed and pedal pressure. (7000km ridden so far). Alex is also a dedicated eMTB rider, and still dabbles in racing of a sort, doing his best to top the Strava leaderboard on the steepest, gnarliest and twistiest trails the Tweed Valley has to offer just for fun, of course. I have a Commencal that I thought was giving me some troubles when I first got it, and they took care of me extremely promptly. Visit the high-res gallery for more images from this review. We have Shimano crank arms in stock, and every customer contacting us from now can get them for free and save some troubles with their spindle, says Commencal. Der Shimano EP8 ist kleiner und leichter Nicht nur das Motorgehuse ist kleiner, auch das Innenleben des EP8 Motors. Still, given the lengths that bike and drivetrain manufacturers have gone to stealthify mountain bikes over the past few years, we found the noisy EP8 motor to be infuriating during the first few rides just as we did with the Bosch Gen 4. Instead, we recommend setting aside some time for a battery-drainer test ride, somewhere that is accessible and easy to ride out with a flat battery, in order to work out your maximum range you can get during typical riding conditions. Simply named by Specialized as the 2.2, the motor continues to offer 90Nm of peak torque, and externally it has the same mounting points and overall shape. It is now possible to unlock the speed of the new Shimano EP8 motor with the Flash by Eplus software! They could have gone "yeah the rattling sucks but we hope you appreciate the motor nonetheless" but instead they composed this pure poetry. Unfortunately this clutch also produces a metallic clack whenever it rotates back and fourth. What a misstep by Shimano to join Bosch in its failure. - High quality display & controller The freewheel is still in the (regular) rear hub so when you're not pedaling, nothing in the motor-bottombracket assembly should be moving, isn't it? Shimano's EP8, short for DU-EP800, features a higher maximum torque of 85Nm compared to the older E8000's 70Nm, topping it by an extra 21%. So far so good. Put on i9 Hydra hubs, annoying motor rattle sounds disappears. Theres still a whirring noise from the metallic gears inside, and the pitch increases slightly at higher cadences. And compared to E8000, the new EP8 motor is considerably more powerful on the trail, whilst retaining the smooth and intuitive delivery that weve always dug about Shimanos drive units. It is MUCH less powerful, but there is no rattle, no weird cut off, no jerky pedal action. Along with the fault-free performance weve experienced so far, wed have no hesitation in recommending a bike built around Shimano EP8 this is a high quality and well-rounded e-MTB system. An E-bike with 200 watt power assist, 350 WH battery, and total weight of bike under 34 lbs. I want to use the Shimano EP8 motor for a small production of solar bikes. The updated Trail mode is brilliant, and the option to fine-tune each assist mode is a welcome feature for achieving the desired feel while maximising range. Assistance Character This adjusts the motors support level, which is how easily the motor delivers its power based on your input. Bikers Edge in Kaysville Utah hooked it up and took a motor off their demo heckler mx and put it on mine. 2023 Thok TK01 R Review | A surprising package from an Italian e-MTB specialist, 2022 Canyon Spectral:ON Review | A better e-MTB in almost every way, 2023 Trek Fuel EXe Review | This brand new lightweight e-MTB is the stealthiest weve ever tested, Rocky Mountain Altitude Powerplay Review | Power is nothing without control, This website requires Javascript for optimum viewing purposes. Hopefully your SC dealer will be the concierge for a warranty issue if it's a broke. quieter(+) smaller(+) lighter(+) more power(-) battery range(=). What ever happened to grit?!?! I had the same issue with my Yamaha but it was last winter. Weve noticed this while pedalling along forest double tracks and on the road to and from the trailhead, but its also apparent when sprinting along faster sections of singletrack. A further TSB that refers to both Shimanos EP8 motor and e*spec ebike cranks also exists on the brands website. Bikers Edge in Kaysville Utah hooked it up and took a motor off their demo heckler mx and put it on mine. It features the new Shimano EP8 motor and a 630wh battery. The Pivot Shuttle, for example, employs a huge 726Wh battery made by a third party company called Darfon. Hitting those famous tracks day in, day out for eight years, he broke more bikes than he can remember. The compact size and a magnesium casing helped cut 300 grams. Bunny hops were absolutely a blast on this bike. I own the Levo SL, and it is the most refined ebike I have ridden so far. We see some comments about how bad the Shimano EP8 motor is. The sign of a true technical rider. Animals and Pets Anime Art Cars and Motor Vehicles Crafts and DIY Culture, Race, and Ethnicity Ethics and Philosophy Fashion Food and Drink History Hobbies Law Learning and Education Military Movies Music Place Podcasts and Streamers Politics Programming Reading, Writing, and Literature Religion and Spirituality Science Tabletop Games . SHIMANO STEPS EP8 Left Switch Unit for Assist VIEW PRODUCT Cycle Computer SC-EM800 EP8 Cycle Computer VIEW PRODUCT SC-E5003 SHIMANO STEPS Cycle Computer with Assist Switch (SD300 port) VIEW PRODUCT Speed Sensor EW-SS302 Disc Brake Speed Sensor (SD300 type) VIEW PRODUCT EW-SS301 SHIMANO STEPS Disc Brake Speed Sensor for EW-SD300 VIEW PRODUCT You can display way more metrics on it too, and battery is usefully displayed as a percentage. Also a big improvement over the prior motor is that the EP8 freewheels easily, so on flats or downhill you can blast away without motor resistance. The new motor, called EP8, is 10 percent smaller and is a lot lighter. 2. Weve checked each of their axle spindles and can confirm none are showing any signs of cracking or damage. That rattle would drive me bonkers. Commencal which has sold a number of its Meta Power electric bikeswith an EP8 motor and e*thirteen crank combination replied to our inquiries. They deemed it a warranty and the motor has failed. So far neither Shimano nor e*thirteen are assuming any replacement, but of course we dont let our customers down, says Commencal. In the higher settings, the motor will deliver maximum power without you having to pedal very hard at all. Perfect? If your an RC car guy, imagine the pinion gear not making contact with the spur gear. All you guys "waiting" to get a ebike are blowing it..the bikes are refined trek rail no problems..going around the country slaying every trail I see chugging beer and laughing at all u haters.. believe me I guys will all be on one sooner than later. If there is no threadlocker patch, move onto point 2c. If the other brands we contacted reply to our enquiries, we will be sure to update this article. According to e*thirteen, the safety inspection is relevant to all EP8 owners, regardless of what cranks are fitted. Stay tuned, as well have an Orbea Rise test bike arriving very soon. I do not have a car. The noise is easily demonstrated if you pick the back wheel up a few inches off the ground and let it come back down. My local rides average 30-35km with just under 1km of climb. Shimano advises that only approved crank arms should be used with its DU-EP8 drive units, reads Shimanos statement. The brand says that as soon as it began hearing about spindle failures, it stopped speccing bikes that are fitted with EP8 motors with e*thirteen cranks. For riders scoping out bigger rides than that, youll want to consider dialling down the Assistance Character to improve efficiency. They need to get their old skunk works team back together and gain real world feedback before promoting vaporware. The metallurgic analysis was conducted to discover root cause. 2c - If preload cap has no threadlock patch pre applied: In terms of improvements, EP8 is marginally lighter (300g) and smaller in volume (10%) over the old E8000 motor. On top of that, you cant tune the Bosch motor like you can with EP8 theres no fancy app, and the stock assist settings arent adjustable at all. By their own standards of non-assist components, this motor is not worthy of the shimano name. The version I've been riding on was 17,8kg. Once again still want to know; is the BB replaceable on these units yet, or are they still landfill waiting to happen? However, all are fitted with Shimano cranks. @tomdesoals: That excuse that Shimano put out by their customer service dept . Along with the new EP8 motor, Shimano has also released a larger 630Wh battery, which seems to be the most popular option at the moment youll find it inside both the Canyon Spectral:ON and Merida eOne-Sixty. The new EP8 drive unit provides incredibly quiet assistance under pedal load. Smaller:Compared to the previous model, the EP8's volume has been reduced. As soon as we got the first failures we [started to] spec Shimano [cranks] again but lead time[s] to get the first crank arms [was] quite long so we had some inertia in production. However, we couldnt get the display to pair with our Wahoo ELMNT Roam head unit. This reduced the tendency for the front wheel to lift on really steep tech climbs. Furthermore, having the battery life displayed as five bars is positively rudimentary. There are 5 levels of adjustment from Mild to Quick, with the highest setting requiring only a small rotation with light pedal force to engage the motor. We like to setup Profile 1 with softer settings for maximum range when riding solo, and Profile 2 with the punchier factory settings for faster e-MTB group rides. Sometimes that means a DIY fix and other times it can mean a recall, software update or part replacement by a dealer. Environmentally I think they're a disaster as well - rare earth elements in the batteries for one thing. Weve ridden the latest Bosch Performance CX Gen 4 motor on a variety of e-MTBs, including the Cube Stereo Hybrid 160 and the Trek Rail. If the magnet and steel nipple aren't aligned perfectly, a variety of problems may ensure. An e-Mtb allows me to ride farther, and more often and smile from beginning to end, not just the downhill sections! Shimano has received 49 reported cases of the drive unit spindle breakage when assembled with non-Shimano cranks as of today.. I've had a go on ebikes and think they're fantastic and good fun. Good thing with Shimano is warranty,at least here in Madrid is almost instantaneous. Well, maybe, but he also chucked 20kg dead weight in his bag to try to make things right for you. At my age 69, if it isn't fun, exciting, and challenging, count me out! Yesterday I drove down south to explore some new trail in Utah. Ebikes are great as a self shuttle, especially for time limited people. Specialized is close to this. Sell it to me, bet ya cant specially at a respectable 90 keys. Power less, battery smaller, it lighter is.. Would "every time you push the on switch" have been more understandable? No, but the best on the market IMO. How stuff like this gets through what I would like to think was extensive testing I will never know. Don't take things too seriously just get out there and enjoy whatever you own and have FUN! Overall the tuning adjustments are quite noticeable, though wed always recommend only adjusting one parameter at a time to isolate its effect on the trail. e-bikes remove the only non-financial barrier for entry into a sport that historically required at least some small amount of fitness. To replicate field failures, we had to look outside of the required ISO and EN testing requirements as those tests were passed successfully. Some claim it's a dangerous motor that suffers spindle failures. Meanwhile, e*thirteens response places the ball firmly in Shimanos court. e*thirteen is one of the biggest OEM suppliers of cranks on electric mountain bikes. Here youll find three sliding scales for each of the three assist modes (thats Eco, Trail and Boost). 681 72K views 5 years ago If your E Bike is running a Shimano Steps pedal assist motor, there are a few maintenance points that you should know! But on the premise of further, faster, more fun, that range at full noise is not gonna outdo the range & fun I get outta my bowl of cereal and some old fashion pedal power. The issue, we've been told, is that the motor body is subject to cracking when the drive is employed as a stressed part of the bike's frame. Assistance Start Here you can tweak how quickly the motor responds within the first pedal stroke. Hopefully this option will open up to non-Garmin users in the future. And you're clearly not pedaling, just pure flow. The Bosch motor produces the same 85Nm peak torque output as Shimano EP8, and it offers a similarly drag-free ride quality beyond the 25km/h cutoff due to the motor decoupling from the cranks. While the increased power certainly grabs most of the headlines, we reckon its the compact form of the Shimano EP8 drive unit that offers the greatest advantage over its competitors. Their new ride algorithms make the EP8 one of the most natural feeling motors out there, with plenty of power to propel the bike over obstacles, even if Bosch and Brose are still a bit punchier and deliver slightly more power. Now, we're not going to be working on the actual. Alex then moved back to the UK and put his vast knowledge of mountain biking to good use by landing a job working for MBUK magazine as features editor. If I pull the E-trigger, it'll still be a Levo SL now that S has worked through the issues. We asked Shimano and e*thirteen for comment on the spindle cracking issue. The three EP8 bikes weve tested all have sub-440mm rear centre lengths, which is quite a bit shorter than the 471.5mm rear centre on the Giant Trance X E+ with its much bulkier Yamaha motor, for example. Those Merida ebikes ride quite good too. However, you do pay for all that refinement and integration. So that would include rocks, hops, trackstands but also sudden boosts from a standstill. Not the first time Shimano has screwed the pooch with recent launches. All bikes [have been] assembled with Shimano cranks since 2021 April.. Durability and ease of maintenence is far more important than power in my world. 2a - Using a 5mm hex key, loosen counterclockwise and remove the preload cap. Why don't you just make 10 be the top number and make that fully charged? A forum community dedicated to Mountain Bike owners and enthusiasts. In fact, we found ourselves tuning it out completely a couple of rides later. Shimano said August was the best. On top of that, you cant tune the Bosch motor like you can with EP8 theres no fancy app, and the stock assist settings arent adjustable what you see is what you get.
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